Dear Project Managers,
I am currently taking classes toward receiving a major in Decision Information Sciences. I am writing for advice on classes taken, certifications completed and other information pertaining to becoming a Project Manager. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Peter
I am currently taking classes toward receiving a major in Decision Information Sciences. I am writing for advice on classes taken, certifications completed and other information pertaining to becoming a Project Manager. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Peter
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Re: IT Certification
Mon, August 16, 2004 - 5:30 AMThe most widely recognized (that I know of) is the PMP certification from www.pmi.org. It consists of a test, and a history of your work containing either 4500 hours of project management related work (for those with degrees) or 7500 hours of project management related work (for those without degrees). I haven't heard of other certifications being mentioned in ANY job interview/request. -
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Re: IT Certification
Mon, August 16, 2004 - 7:36 AMThanks Ken, did you go through the traditional degree route, or did you go straight fot the certification?
Also what exactly is involved in your day-to-day activities?
Thank you very much for your help.
-Peter -
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Re: IT Certification
Mon, August 16, 2004 - 5:02 PMI ALMOST finished a degree, but medical problems came up (mom's, not mine) and never got around to finishing it. I sort of fell from one development position to another until I got put in as a project manager where I'm at now. I miss the coding, but it's kind of nice to be the PHB with a clue.
As for day to day, I manage various projects and make sure that the developers stay on track. Solve problems as they come up, mentor younger developers, ride herd over developers with big egos and act as a barrier between upper management and my guys. I didn't think I'd like it since I don't get to code as much, but actually it's kind of fun.
I'm in the process of studying for the PMP cert test, and documenting the experience I have. That takes FOREVER it seems. -
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Re: IT Certification
Tue, August 17, 2004 - 11:08 AMThanks Ken,
So you applied for a development posistion, and then moved to management? What skills were they looking for when they decided to place you in your current posistion?
Thank you,
Peter -
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Re: IT Certification
Tue, August 17, 2004 - 4:31 PMActually I really did fall into the position, I was a Sr. Developer at a location that needs a security clearance, and the contracting company that won another contract there needed someone familiar with the place. I was coming off of another contract, and 26 hrs later, I was the Project Manager. Not to say that I haven't done a good job since, but it still was being in the right place at the right time.
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Re: IT Certification
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 10:06 AMThere is also the Project+ Certification. It costs far less, doesn't have all the persnickety rules, doesn't sunset, seems more focused on IT, and I particularly appreciate the focus that Element-K and other Project+ curriculum give to the Project Manager's role in creating the project charter. PMI seems to think they always come from some corporate VP... but what if you ARE the corporate VP.
PMI gets my goat for arrogance... presuming to set standards for who should even be able to apply to pass their test and including, in their standards, clear discrimination between people with degreed backgrounds over those of us who grew up working in the field. How a bachelor's degree in Music gets you up their ladder better than an associates degree in electronics beats me.
By their standards, the people who invented PERT would not be able to to sit the test as they may have moved too far up the management ladder or moved into academia where they are coaching and mentoring project managers instead of directly acting. If Harry Gantt were to rise from the grave, he would not be able to sit the test.
The other thing I dislike about PMI is that they expropriate the English language, setting themselves up as self-appointed authorities. How the ability to distinguish between a tool and a process bears upon ones ability to manage projects defies my understanding. Procurement, as they describe it, doesn't look much like anything anybody actually does--distinguishing between solicitation and procurement documents, for example. I know a Harvard Business School graduate who thinks this will result in poorer business results due to the special language of PMI reducing transparency and complicating communications between business managers and project managers.
The GAO has said, in places, that as the requirements for project management certification in government projects are rolled out that the Project+ will be suitable any place that requires a PMP.
PMI has a pecuniary interest in promoting their way of doing things. People who work hard to pass their tests, having to learn more about PMI-isms than project management, imho, rightfully want to take pride in their accomplishments and leverage their certification for a greater salary. This results in a huge group-think situation ripe with denial.
No certification or college degree is a substitute for experience and good judgment. I suspect that those who hold certifications as most important are those who know the least about a subject area--depending upon a pedigree for a hiring decision instead of their own knowledge and abilities.
That said, I hold a few certifications. I also believe the educational process that one goes through to acquire them is beneficial and tends to sharpen one. Having taught Project+ and college-level IT Project Management classes (although I only have an Associates Degree), and having sat through a PMP boot camp, I'm convinced that the PMP does not yield value commensurate with its price and level of difficulty. Value that I would look for would be the ability of successful candidates to successfully and profitably manage projects.
Both Project+ and PMI's PMP provide a foundation upon which experience needs to be added. Three years down the pike the difference in what certification one chose is going to be less important than the kind of intervening experience obtained. Membership in PMI probably has some value as it provides a forum in which to continue learning beyond the PMP exam, but I think they would do just as well to drop the PMP and rely upon their members passing Project+ much like Microsoft stopped testing for basic networking and now relies upon CompTIA’s Network+ exam. -
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Unsu...
Re: IT Certification
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 10:27 AMI think there's been a perception from PMI and a lot of Project managers of IT managers that think they're "project Managers but aren't"
I have an IT background but I'm also pursuing my PMP certification..I'm taking great classes at UC Berkeley Extension..and it's interesting that a lot of instructors do stress that even though PMI has their way of doing things...it's not necessarily reality.
I've been out of work for 9 months now--I finally got a job not exactly what I wanted but Hell I needed the $$$.
I've been having difficulty proving to potential employers just because I have an IT background I really am Schooled in PMI/Project Management and plan to take the PMP test next spring. But still it's a perception that's out there.
There may be some truth in that perception--but after hearing former employers whine about how their Project Managers aren't tech savvy and KNOW nothing about IT--hello???... It is a catch 22.
Nice to know that there's another certification program out there...but where I live (Bay area) they really want you to have that PMP....
But it's true in some circles of Project Management--they do look down on folks that came from an IT background. -
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Re: IT Certification
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 11:41 AMBusiness folksa are right to be suspicious of IT as so many IT projects never seem to prove-up--less than 50% in mainframe days and quality... sometimes it was enough if "it works."
I use to think it was a benefit of PMP that it is more general, but then learned that whole sections of the test, like procurement, appear to be the product of government users in the Washington, DC PMI chapter who are mostly software developers. Software gets emphasized, I think, because that is where the challenges lie--particularly in measurement.
Building contractors didn't create PMI and they were around for a while.
I learned project management during submarine overhauls, first as a crew member on the USS Barb in Mare Island, where I learned about PERT in 1973; then while managing the log room documentation for the USS Grayback overhaul in Subic Bay in 1976; then working for CACI as the project manager for the USS Brunswick overhaul at Dillingham Shipyard in Hawaii in 1983 before moving into software development work.
I worked in project management until 2001, continue to teach project management, but only have about 8 months with a project management title between 2001 and now. That put me on the edge of qualifying for the exam (5 years in the last 8) depending upon how I count teaching and curriculum development. Folks with music degrees and less than five years experience are sitting the exam that I cannot sit. So, to me that kind of frames the value of the certification--something I'll have in mind when I read resume's.
Managers who can look past certifications and see your skills, apptitudes, and abilities will be better choices for employers and bosses--and it doesn't hurt to be selective when looking for that next job.
I thinkPMI is mostly a bunch of consultants trying to figure out what is good for themselves and hoping to foist their ideas off as de rigeur when the truth is that truth belongs to no one. (If anyone seeks wisdom, let them ask it from their creator who gives freely and upbraidth not.) The PMP process has value, but I think it is still over-hyped and probably less beneficial for software project management than the humble Project+. It's a consultants' wonk. Will it make money? Sure for a while. So did the year 2000 projects. Will they be worth the expense?
Well, ask yourself: If you were hiring somebody a year from now, would you hire somebody who had passed the PMP this year or the person who passed it next year when it's suppose to be harder? PMI is about to adulterate the value of certifications they've already issued by issuing a "tougher" test. Like Osborn computers... well maybe the coralary... they may be obsolete in two years. -
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Unsu...
Re: IT Certification
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 12:57 PMI plan to take it next year...since I won't be finished with my educational PDUs until then..
I'll probably have to take a refresher course to cover new stuff on the new exam....
I think most of the changes have been terminology...for the most part...
Aren't there mock exams you can take (like transcender exams)?? -
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Re: IT Certification
Fri, September 9, 2005 - 12:41 PMYes. Transcender purchased the Self-Test software series. I'm thinking that they were a bit more expensive than other transcenders. -
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Unsu...
Re: IT Certification
Fri, September 9, 2005 - 12:50 PMwho does the self test for pmp?? do they??
Someone recommended another one..with an irish name...should have written it down -
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Re: IT Certification
Mon, September 19, 2005 - 11:27 AMSelf Test Software did them, but was purchased by Transcender. That's my understanding. My employer has a deal with Transcender that I'm frequently hooking students up with.
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Re: IT Certification
Wed, July 19, 2006 - 4:48 PMPrep? Rita Mulcahy
www.amazon.com/gp/product...404-7980760
I did not use it, and passed on the 1st attempt.
GET INTO (or start) A STUDY GROUP.
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Re: IT Certification
Wed, July 19, 2006 - 4:46 PMI am an IT project manager with PMP certification. I belong to a whole department of project managers, within a humongous company.
I am always surprised about how non-technical my coworkers are. Then again, even though I am PMP certified, I feel like I need to know more about Project Management.
It IS a difficult balance, but you CAN be a PM without extensive technical background. I think it boils down to being able to ask enough questions, and know who your stakeholders and SME are.
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Re: IT Certification
Wed, July 19, 2006 - 4:09 PMAt last! Someone else who recognises that the PMI PMP certification is near useless without credible years of PM experience behind them. The PMI certifications are not competency based - anyone can pick up manuals, study, attempt practice exams, sit the real exam and become a certified PM without having any real world experience. Oh yes, then there is the huge industry behind PMI which you can spend lots of $$$$ to buy the study material, exam fees etc - what blood sucking leaches.
For me, a PM needs to have business acumen, a savvy for not just IT but also the surrounding technologies and, if you are a PM in the IT industry, it would be preferable that you have done your apprenticeship in IT - not lawn mower mechanics.
I have to work alongside these so called PMI PMP gold plated PM's - they like the notoriety, getting their names on useless white papers and the like. Good on them I say! Stay there and let us real PM's get on with the job at hand.
Bah humbug!
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